Posté: Dim 15 Fév 2009 13:30Méthode Cutler Un texte FONDATEUR :
Bonjour,
Voici l’original du document d’Andy Cutler expliquant la différence entre
-- son Protocole : doses faibles, mais fréquentes, données d’après la demie vie,
-- et les protocoles du DAN! (Defeat Autism Now!) : plus fortes doses, moins souvent.
Traduction des textes en couleur, et quelques commentaires sur le post suivant.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Au ... sage/53055
The difference in administration frequency between the DAN! protocol (every 8-12 hours for ALA, every 8 for DMSA) and the "Andy" protocol (every 4 hours or more often for DMSA, every 3 hours or more often for ALA with occasional 4 hour use) are pretty straightforward to explain.
First, chelating agents serve two functions.
They mobilize toxic metals.
They also bind toxic metals. They do NOT "hold on tight" and do NOT bind irreversibly. They pick up and drop the metals often.
Thus, you need to maintain a rough balance between mobilization and binding so that the chelators grab most of the free toxic metals rather than letting them grab back on to the body.
[color=009900]
In order to do this, you need to keep the blood level of chelating agents reasonably constant.
This is done by giving them roughly a half life apart, so that blood levels don't fluctuate by more than a factor of 2.[/color]
[color=990000]
The half life of DMSA (directly measured in human children) is 2.5 to 3.5 hours.
The kinetics of ALA are much more complicated but are adequately described as a half life of 1.5 to 2.5 hours.
[/color][color=000099]
The peaks get smeared out over a 2 hour period due to it taking about 2 hours for the stuff to slowly be absorbed when it is given by mouth.[/color] [color=FF6600]*1[/color]
EXACTLY how long you can wait between doses varies from individual to individual and I have determined my numbers based on the experience of a lot of people who have done it this way.
They are theoretically sound and empirically verified.
While I can't really tell you exactly why ALA is best every 3 hours or whether DMSA could be stretched to 5 and still be OK, [color=990000]I can tell you with great certainty that 8 hours is way beyond the bounds of reason.[/color] [color=FF6600]*2[/color]
Now please note that everyone is different.
Everyone is a unique individual. This is just as true biochemically as socially.
Thus while there is perfect certainty that the above applies to any large group of people, and is best for most people in that group, any given individual may need to do it differently and in any large group there will be a few who do better on something other than the "one size fits all" average protocol.
[color=660099]
This leads to the following conditions which I believe any responsible person would adhere to:
1. Try the "best" approach on everyone, no matter what. Just try it.
2. If some particular person repeatedly does poorly on the "best" approach and well on something else, respect their individual needs and do what works for them.[/color] [color=FF6600]*3[/color]
Please also note something else covered under "everyone is different."
Not all autistic children have mercury (or a related heavy metal) as the root cause of their condition.
Good diagnosis is needed.
Any doctor who chelates ALL of the children who come in the door isn't doing it right.
The first step is make some attempt to figure out WHAT is wrong, and direct treatment at that.
If treatment is not leading to the expected progress, go back to the diagnostic step. A diagnosis is only an opinion as to what is going on. Opinions can be wrong.
[color=009900]
As to dosing differences between the "Andy" and DAN! protocols, the important factor is that increasing the dose increases side effects rapidly, but does not increase metal removal much.
Doubling the amount of DMSA or ALA in a dose more than doubles side effects.[/color][color=990000]
However, it speeds up metal removal by less than 33%.[/color] [color=FF6600]*4[/color]
Once you are using enough chelator to get some response and have some side effects, there really is no reason to push things.
You can double your dose and go from noticeable side effects to a horrendous, intolerable experience and make it so you can get through a given amount of metal in 3 months instead of 4.
Also, as the side effects increase, your ability to chelate frequently will decrease so sticking to a lower dose and doing it routinely every weekend or every other weekend will in practice get your kid cleared of metal faster than using a very high dose and spending weeks or months putting your kid back together after each cycle.[color=990000]
This is clearest in the discussions regarding all the yeast problems kids have with chelation that are in the archives.[/color] [color=FF6600]*5[/color]
Summarizing the dosage and administration differences:
8 vs 3-4 hour dosing.
Why dose more often?
It is necessary for most children if they are going to get better.
This is supported by the fact that DAN! doctors were reporting dramatic progress when doing it this way and no longer are now that they use 8 hour dosing.
1500 mg/day versus 350 mg/day.
Why use more DMSA/ALA?
There is no real need to use a lot, since it makes the kid dramatically more uncomfortable without really speeding things up much.
Let me work the arithmetic on this one and you will quickly see what I mean about dosing.
The relevant formulae are in the appendix to my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment
(described at www.noamalgam.com).
Each 500 mg dose of DMSA removes (500/50)^0.409 = 2.56 times as much
metal as each 50 mg dose.
3 500 mg doses daily remove 7.69 units of metal.
7 50 mg doses daily remove 7.00 units of metal.
The difference in metal removed by DMSA between the DAN! high dose protocol and the Andy low dose protocol is 10% in this case.
[color=990000]
If you use 100 mg DMSA every 4 hours versus 500 mg every 8 hours, the lower dose protocol actually removes 21% MORE metal than the higher dose protocol.[/color] [color=FF6600]*6[/color]
Similarly for lipoic acid, the arithmetic is:
Three 100 mg doses remove 5.29 units of metal, while seven 25 mg doses remove 7.00 units of metal. Again, the "lower dose" protocol actually removes more metal in a 24 hour period.
The really important thing to keep in mind is some further human biochemistry as far as heavy metals are concerned.
That is, why is it such a bad idea to let the metals bounce around by just giving chelator randomly?
Don't the metals come out eventually no matter how you do it?
[color=990000]
The real issue is that the metals do NOT sit where they are until they come out.
Chelators can move them all over the body.[/color] [color=FF6600]*7[/color]
The most damaging place they can be is in the brain, and the next most damaging is in the liver.
A lot of the metal that is sitting quietly in a muscle, bone, kidney, or ligament and not really causing much damage there, can be moved INTO the brain and liver if it gets stirred up and there isn't chelator around to keep it company until it is excreted.
[color=000099]
So improper chelation with too long an interval between doses actually can make people MORE poisoned by INCREASING the amount of toxic metal in the brain and liver even though the total amount in their body does decline.[/color] [color=FF6600]*8[/color]
This has been observed innumerable times with adults for many years, and DAN! has now experimentally demonstrated that it works just the same way in children.
[color=669900]
With proper chelation everything gets BETTER from the start.
[/color][color=990000]
With improper chelation some things get WORSE.
Then it takes LONGER for those to get better than if proper chelation had been used all along.[/color] [color=FF6600]*9[/color]
I hope this rather long post clarifies the differences between the DAN! and Andy chelation approaches, and explains why I think it is important to do it one way instead of another.
What I hope you will consider the "take home lesson" here is to just try it both ways a couple of times if you are considering the DAN! protoccol or if your doctor insists.
Traduction des textes en couleur, et quelques commentaires sur le post suivant.
joël
Bonjour,
Voici l’original du document d’Andy Cutler expliquant la différence entre
-- son Protocole : doses faibles, mais fréquentes, données d’après la demie vie,
-- et les protocoles du DAN! (Defeat Autism Now!) : plus fortes doses, moins souvent.
Traduction des textes en couleur, et quelques commentaires sur le post suivant.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Au ... sage/53055
The difference in administration frequency between the DAN! protocol (every 8-12 hours for ALA, every 8 for DMSA) and the "Andy" protocol (every 4 hours or more often for DMSA, every 3 hours or more often for ALA with occasional 4 hour use) are pretty straightforward to explain.
First, chelating agents serve two functions.
They mobilize toxic metals.
They also bind toxic metals. They do NOT "hold on tight" and do NOT bind irreversibly. They pick up and drop the metals often.
Thus, you need to maintain a rough balance between mobilization and binding so that the chelators grab most of the free toxic metals rather than letting them grab back on to the body.
[color=009900]
In order to do this, you need to keep the blood level of chelating agents reasonably constant.
This is done by giving them roughly a half life apart, so that blood levels don't fluctuate by more than a factor of 2.[/color]
[color=990000]
The half life of DMSA (directly measured in human children) is 2.5 to 3.5 hours.
The kinetics of ALA are much more complicated but are adequately described as a half life of 1.5 to 2.5 hours.
[/color][color=000099]
The peaks get smeared out over a 2 hour period due to it taking about 2 hours for the stuff to slowly be absorbed when it is given by mouth.[/color] [color=FF6600]*1[/color]
EXACTLY how long you can wait between doses varies from individual to individual and I have determined my numbers based on the experience of a lot of people who have done it this way.
They are theoretically sound and empirically verified.
While I can't really tell you exactly why ALA is best every 3 hours or whether DMSA could be stretched to 5 and still be OK, [color=990000]I can tell you with great certainty that 8 hours is way beyond the bounds of reason.[/color] [color=FF6600]*2[/color]
Now please note that everyone is different.
Everyone is a unique individual. This is just as true biochemically as socially.
Thus while there is perfect certainty that the above applies to any large group of people, and is best for most people in that group, any given individual may need to do it differently and in any large group there will be a few who do better on something other than the "one size fits all" average protocol.
[color=660099]
This leads to the following conditions which I believe any responsible person would adhere to:
1. Try the "best" approach on everyone, no matter what. Just try it.
2. If some particular person repeatedly does poorly on the "best" approach and well on something else, respect their individual needs and do what works for them.[/color] [color=FF6600]*3[/color]
Please also note something else covered under "everyone is different."
Not all autistic children have mercury (or a related heavy metal) as the root cause of their condition.
Good diagnosis is needed.
Any doctor who chelates ALL of the children who come in the door isn't doing it right.
The first step is make some attempt to figure out WHAT is wrong, and direct treatment at that.
If treatment is not leading to the expected progress, go back to the diagnostic step. A diagnosis is only an opinion as to what is going on. Opinions can be wrong.
[color=009900]
As to dosing differences between the "Andy" and DAN! protocols, the important factor is that increasing the dose increases side effects rapidly, but does not increase metal removal much.
Doubling the amount of DMSA or ALA in a dose more than doubles side effects.[/color][color=990000]
However, it speeds up metal removal by less than 33%.[/color] [color=FF6600]*4[/color]
Once you are using enough chelator to get some response and have some side effects, there really is no reason to push things.
You can double your dose and go from noticeable side effects to a horrendous, intolerable experience and make it so you can get through a given amount of metal in 3 months instead of 4.
Also, as the side effects increase, your ability to chelate frequently will decrease so sticking to a lower dose and doing it routinely every weekend or every other weekend will in practice get your kid cleared of metal faster than using a very high dose and spending weeks or months putting your kid back together after each cycle.[color=990000]
This is clearest in the discussions regarding all the yeast problems kids have with chelation that are in the archives.[/color] [color=FF6600]*5[/color]
Summarizing the dosage and administration differences:
8 vs 3-4 hour dosing.
Why dose more often?
It is necessary for most children if they are going to get better.
This is supported by the fact that DAN! doctors were reporting dramatic progress when doing it this way and no longer are now that they use 8 hour dosing.
1500 mg/day versus 350 mg/day.
Why use more DMSA/ALA?
There is no real need to use a lot, since it makes the kid dramatically more uncomfortable without really speeding things up much.
Let me work the arithmetic on this one and you will quickly see what I mean about dosing.
The relevant formulae are in the appendix to my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment
(described at www.noamalgam.com).
Each 500 mg dose of DMSA removes (500/50)^0.409 = 2.56 times as much
metal as each 50 mg dose.
3 500 mg doses daily remove 7.69 units of metal.
7 50 mg doses daily remove 7.00 units of metal.
The difference in metal removed by DMSA between the DAN! high dose protocol and the Andy low dose protocol is 10% in this case.
[color=990000]
If you use 100 mg DMSA every 4 hours versus 500 mg every 8 hours, the lower dose protocol actually removes 21% MORE metal than the higher dose protocol.[/color] [color=FF6600]*6[/color]
Similarly for lipoic acid, the arithmetic is:
Three 100 mg doses remove 5.29 units of metal, while seven 25 mg doses remove 7.00 units of metal. Again, the "lower dose" protocol actually removes more metal in a 24 hour period.
The really important thing to keep in mind is some further human biochemistry as far as heavy metals are concerned.
That is, why is it such a bad idea to let the metals bounce around by just giving chelator randomly?
Don't the metals come out eventually no matter how you do it?
[color=990000]
The real issue is that the metals do NOT sit where they are until they come out.
Chelators can move them all over the body.[/color] [color=FF6600]*7[/color]
The most damaging place they can be is in the brain, and the next most damaging is in the liver.
A lot of the metal that is sitting quietly in a muscle, bone, kidney, or ligament and not really causing much damage there, can be moved INTO the brain and liver if it gets stirred up and there isn't chelator around to keep it company until it is excreted.
[color=000099]
So improper chelation with too long an interval between doses actually can make people MORE poisoned by INCREASING the amount of toxic metal in the brain and liver even though the total amount in their body does decline.[/color] [color=FF6600]*8[/color]
This has been observed innumerable times with adults for many years, and DAN! has now experimentally demonstrated that it works just the same way in children.
[color=669900]
With proper chelation everything gets BETTER from the start.
[/color][color=990000]
With improper chelation some things get WORSE.
Then it takes LONGER for those to get better than if proper chelation had been used all along.[/color] [color=FF6600]*9[/color]
I hope this rather long post clarifies the differences between the DAN! and Andy chelation approaches, and explains why I think it is important to do it one way instead of another.
What I hope you will consider the "take home lesson" here is to just try it both ways a couple of times if you are considering the DAN! protoccol or if your doctor insists.
Traduction des textes en couleur, et quelques commentaires sur le post suivant.
joël